Cheyenne Thank you for joining us for this episode of what the finance, there are a few things we like to mention at the top of each episode.
Rachel First, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email what_the_finance@protonmail.com or join the what the finance discord server.
Cheyenne Second, it would mean a lot to us if you could support our show through Patreon starting at $3 a month, you can get episode shout-outs, access to topic polls, and get to listen to some pretty hilarious outtakes.
Rachel And, third, as we seek it to be a more inclusive show, we want to acknowledge that colonialism is an ongoing process, and capitalism, which we regularly decry is part of this process. We are recording this episode on the ancestral land of the Dakota and Ojibwe people, and we recognize their sovereignty and express our gratitude at being here. This week on What the Finance, we wanted this spend a little bit of time talking about salary negotiation, because it's a super helpful way to improve your personal finances, uh, both in the short term, but also in the long-term, right? Because usually your employer, if you have retirement set up with your employer, they contribute a percentage of your salary.
But salary negotiation for women can definitely feel like a minefield,
maybe, especially for women, Cheyenne, have you ever negotiated salary your salary before?
Cheyenne Sorta, um, I have typically worked in industries where the salary is.
There's a little bit of like negotiation room, but when, when I say a little bit, I mean, like we're talking a dollar or two negotiation, which is, you know, it does add up, but it's not like we're not talking to. Tens of thousands of dollars.
So yes, but not, not to the extent that like people in other industries experience.
And I always think of that when I, when I look at like salary or salary negotiation tips for. Literally anywhere. Um, because, well, I think there are great tips. I, I, I do. I also recognize that, like, when you're looking at people who work in specifically healthcare and education, there's, there's not as much wiggle room in there.
And so, like, I think one, one thing that I saw a lot of last year on a pretty popular new. Video app was asking organizations what their budget is for a position, which is I think again, great. If you are in certain industries, that is a great question. It's a great way to start. I like it. Um, I just also recognize that when you're looking at like people in the healthcare field, that's not.
Like that wages it's already set. It's the same for pretty much everybody else in that position. So it's not gonna change too, too much. You're really only looking at maybe upwards of, I'd say $ negotiation room on, on like the high, high end. Otherwise you're really only looking at a few cents here and there.
Right. That's true. Again, it's still important.
Rachel Right. But it can be a little bit disheartening. Right? What do you see? Like your peer say, oh yeah, I negotiated a $10000, boost to what they offered me, like yeah. In public and nonprofit employment, which is where both of those fields live. Right. That maybe is not the dollar amount
that you're going to see. Right? One thing I've always seen that I have appreciated a lot is like, uh, actually we are they taking the word salary out of it. And if you're looking for, like, if you're offered a new job, like you can negotiate non money, things that are still going to improve. Uh, your life overall, right? Like negotiating additional vacation time, um, which right. Isn't going to cost the company any money on the front end, uh, or like an education stipend, again, not on the front end.
Cheyenne as you mentioned retirement, that's a . . .
And something that I just recently learned is not. And we actually, we had this conversation shameless plug in our discord server. Um, I guess I didn't realize that not it wasn't the norm for employers to offer life insurance. That's just, it's very common where we are.
So I thought that that was just the norm.
But as I learned, it's not as common as I thought, I guess.
Rachel Well, and I think that a lot of people that are getting to be our age, uh, will purchase like an additional, like a supplemental life insurance policy in addition to 7 what their employers offer, like just in case.
Yeah. Like there are a lot of insurance benefits that you can negotiate that again, will improve your long-term financial life, but you might be more likely to get a yes, then you negotiate your salary. But when it comes to actual salary, I'm still like even within those public and nonprofit sectors, I still think it's a really good idea to try.
Because the wage gap persists, right? Like, you know, they're not low balling. The fellows are not super important to remember, but also more and more households are finding women as the 8 primary earners. So it's not just about you, right? It's also about your family, whatever that looks like. And it's also about the expectation that you're setting for your colleagues.
Both of your current colleagues and people that are coming after you. And if you're because of one trip that I am a pretty big fan of which also I think encourages like some thoughtfulness and planning your next move, right? Like you're not, we're not always in a position to do that, but right. If you've gotten laid off or whatever, but doing informational interviews with people in your field.
With the intent of asking, right? Like how much do you make 9 in a similar role? Like that's also going to help you develop a baseline for what to ask for. So, yeah, that's a super important piece of information I see to get in an informational interview.
Cheyenne I agree. I also, I do use some websites that. I have company reviews and also have people who have anonymously submitted their salary data.
It's a good starting point. It truly is. I highly recommend those. I know that they're a pain in the butt, but as I've mentioned before, I have a separate email set up for using, for like, um, promotional stuff for websites and such. I use that same email for those, that way I can. See, the information I'm looking for in my inbox is not cluttered with all of the stuff that they send
that's for sure. It is having that information though, is it is huge. And I think that we're starting to see a shift towards people, more openly talking about salary and benefits because as you know, as we know, it's, it's, they call it a. Compensation package. Um, and salary is a piece of that. I Al I also will say, and I think that there was, I, I tweeted about this, oh gosh, months ago, at this point, if you are in a position in which you are posting jobs or you work for a place that does, and you have any say whatsoever, put the salary range on your post.
Yep.
Yeah,
I am so thankful that Colorado has decided that that's something that has to be on, on job posts. And I'm really looking forward to the rest of the country following suit, because it is so ridiculous to me that it is , , and we still have places posting jobs without salaries. Pretty much like, I mean, Who wants to waste their time like that.
Rachel Although I am seeing this on LinkedIn, I'm seeing this idea persists really strongly that, you know, if you feel really strongly about the mission of the company and you really love them and you see yourself working there, the money shouldn't matter.
Cheyenne I'm sorry, you're going to have to mortgage.
You've got to knock it off.
Rachel Nobody is working for fun. No, we are all doing this job, whatever this job is so that we can pay our bills. Right. So if you're going to tell me from the outset that I can't pay my bills, I'm not going to waste our time applied. I have with Colorado, I've seen a few posts here and there for like remote work where it will say for Colorado residents, the starting rate of.
Position is I saw one where it was $80,000. So I'm just going to say $80,000. So if you're not in Colorado, it seems like you could still ask for somewhere around
$80,000 again, Colorado, which.
Uh, huh? Does that basically sounds like a fortune to me. Like I'll be,
Cheyenne yeah. That's what a life of working in nonprofit and educational do.
Rachel Right, right. I mean, I don't know. We just did our say we, Nathan just did our taxes. So what I made last year, it's pretty fresh on my mind.
Cheyenne Not what you made?
Rachel Not even close. Yeah. I think my take home pay was like $35K
Cheyenne Yeah. Yeah. Mine is wonky from last year, so I don't
Rachel know. Right, right. I will surely.
But anyway, so yeah,
Cheyenne I think that when we start talking about like salary though, and how like sometimes depending on what that, just that base starting salary is like, for example, me, I, I always have an idea in my head of, of what range I would be comfortable in. And I know that all of, all of the negotiation tactics say.
Don't be the one to, to put a number out first. If I've done my research, I feel pretty confident that the range that I'm giving them is the range they were going to offer anyway, like that's. And again, with that caveat of I've worked in industries, in which a lot of that salary information is, is either just straight up public or competitor.
Across the S like the state and, and other regions that are similar. So, so it's easy to look up. I don't work in a super specialized position, so
it's pretty easily found, but like I said, when I give them, like, in my head, I'll give them a range. Like, just to be honest, because I'm not going to go. Below what I've said, my, my lowest ranges, because I've already done,
like
I've done the math and to know what I need to make, but I'm also willing to take that, that lowest amount in like, on the salary scale for the opportunity to have a conversation about like different benefits.
Like, if, if I can get a little bit more vacation, that's worth it for me, but that's already after having done all of that other
stuff.
To know that that lowest is truly the lowest that I can, I can go. And if that doesn't work out for me or an employer, that's fine, right?
Rachel Yeah. Pretty much, no, I'll add this link in our episode description.
So for anybody who's interested, they can check this out. But an organization that I am a giant fan of is Bossed Up. They have a salary negotiation guide that you can download for free from their website. And so like in our last few minutes here, one thing I wanted to be sure to mention. If you get a new job, but cause it can feel pretty impossible to negotiate salary in a current position, especially if you're a public or nonprofit employee.
Don't say if you're offered a new job, don't say yes immediately. Right. Cause I think we've all had that phone call. Right. They call you up and they say, Hey, we'd really like to offer you the job. And this is how much we'd like to pay you. And like, holy crap, maybe it sounds great. And you've been looking for a really long time.
And so like, you're really literally willing to take just about anything still don't say yes, right away. Say it's tongue thing. Like I'm really happy to hear from you. Could I get this offer and right. And then schedule a time to talk to you about it so that you can take some time, let that initial excitement kind of wear off a little bit and then come back and say, you know what?
Hey, based on my research, the salary looks a little on the low side, or I'd really like to earn more. Vacation time, or this is a remote role. Can you give me an allowance for office equipment? Right. Like any, cause I think we've all been there. I've certainly not followed the advice that I am 7 giving. The last time that I got a job offer, I was just like, yep.
Sounds good. And it's because I was desperate and I needed a job, but if you can do, you should just take a
Cheyenne minute. I will also say something that I always always do. And I I'm I'll I'll mention off the bat here. I enjoy my current job. I have no intention of going anywhere. Anytime. It's great with all that said, my LinkedIn is mostly updated.
I do need to update it a little bit more. My LinkedIn is mostly updated. My resumes are mostly updated. I have cover letters I can work from, and I always keep those things. And I always still have job alerts because you never know. I, I. Applied 8 for a reach of a job
that was, was neat.
Like I had a good job.
I didn't, I wasn't in a position where I had to to accept something. I applied for this reach of a job interviewed was offered, sat on the offer for like three days, went back and forth with them and was like, Hey, you know, like these are the things that I would need to basically. Have in the world to make this happen.
And they were pretty great about like making those things happen. So it was, I mean, it's, it's truly easier to negotiate in those situations when you're not clouded by the, I need to get out of here or I need to change or something like that. Like, so even if you're happy in your job, Keep your resume and your LinkedIn updated, keep jobs searches for just those stretch dream jobs.
You never know. And I'm a nerd and think that's fun.
Rachel And I'm so sorry. I have one last thing for real life. We have all had jobs where your employer says you can't talk about the watches that is against the law in the United States. So under the national labor relations act your right to discuss your wages with.
Wherever and whatever you want is protected by federal law. So if you get fired for discussing your wages, you have a hell of a lawsuit on your hands, and you're probably going to win hashtag not a lawyer.
Cheyenne We have like lots to say on this. It's it's as we usually do. Um, but. As previously mentioned, one of the things about the morning recording is that we have a time limit, which is probably really good for Rachel and I.
Um, and so something that you may not know is that we hit that time limit.
So to wrap it up, do some research on the, on the salary for the position that you're, you're applying for and hoping to get. Definitely, definitely do that. Also make sure to, to think about offers. Don't just like excitedly accept them as hard as it may be.
Always have a resume updated and ready, or even just like the outline of a basic resume so that you could go in, fill something out quick, just in case something awesome. Comes up and then, um, join our district. Cause we talk about nerdy things all the time. And there were a group of nerds. So I guess I shouldn't say that because I don't know that everybody else identifies as a nerd, I assume they do, but I don't know for sure.
Rachel I think it's a reasonable assumption.